How much influence have politics, specifically of the EU/German big autos played in the Battery Electric Vehicle industry? Was there a “conspiracy”? Did it really achieve something positive and meaningful?

How much influence have politics, specifically of the EU/German big autos played in the Battery Electric Vehicle industry? Was there a “conspiracy”? Did it really achieve something positive and meaningful?

https://reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/x8i5g4/how_much_influence_have_politics_specifically_of/
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https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/x8i5g4/how_much_influence_have_politics_specifically_of/


Not sure if this is the place to post. Perhaps this should be better asked in geopolitics subreddit.

In the 1990s, VW and other German and European automakers laughed at and made fun of Ford, Honda and Toyota for chasing and adopting hybrid technology for their cars. The Europeans decided on Diesel instead and even forced a regulation and propaganda so that to sell in Western Europe the EU, you gotta have a diesel.

However, VW along with Mercedes, BMW and others were caught cheating and thus became evident that German car, European car=No.1 was a false fantasy and that those other automakers were indeed correct. Germans being very proud or maybe arrogant as they are (remember majority of German auto engineers all have doctorate PhDs unlike Japanese or American counterpart), wanted a way out of this so they pushed battery electric and try to make that a new standard (which is what is happening now).

Of course, Porsche family that controls VW group or Quandt sibling that own 50% of BMW holds a strong influence in EU so the government, considering the fact that automobiles is the only remaining manufacturing sector left, decided to fully support them with regulations, bailouts incentives and such to help kickstart this (just like it was in Diesel). I mean how much have VW spent in Electrify America?

However, Europe don’t make their own battery and so they had to import it (again don’t have that manufacturing capability anymore). Of course, they don’t want to use safe, reliable, and dependable but archrival Japanese batteries (because then they are technically admitting that they are inferior). So they decided to use Korean and Chinese batteries. However, LG Chem batteries keep exploding and although Chinese ones are of better quality, they had to bow down and submit to the demand of the evil CCP. Remember China has vast rare earth mineral deposits. As far back as 1992, Deng Xiaoping stressed that “the Middle East has oil; China has rare earths.” and this German approaching them was a golden opportunity come true for China in many ways.

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China on their part, using this vulnerability of German automakers as well as German industry’s extreme reliance on Chinese market (more so than American, British or the Japanese), tried to electrify and expand and grow their copy-cat car industry and hiring German and European engineers and designers to grow and mature their car industry. (Perhaps for this reason, maybe why German and European electric cars sell terribly in China). I mean look how CATL or BYD grew.

This is my understanding of what is happening with regards to Europe and China and the recent BEV push. People talk about Tesla this and Tesla, but I believe Tesla was just a lucky beneficiary behind this large (perhaps) artificial shift

Just like Germany have gone knee deep and became addicted to cheap Russian oil and gas in order to “stimulate and grow their economy” (thanks, Schröder and also Merkel for shutting down nuclear plant) to sort of save and bail its manufacturing sector, they have bent a knee to the CCP. They have become sort of a colony of both Russia and China.

[German dependence on China growing ‘at tremendous pace’, research shows | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/german-dependence-china-growing-at-tremendous-pace-research-shows-2022-08-19/)

That is why they cannot strongly just come out and say “NO!” to China.

Most worryingly, this dangerous and dare I say “nefarious” relations between Germany and China is more than just cars and rare earth minerals. The Chinese PLA Naval ships (as well as their army vehicles like tanks) use German MAN/Deutz/MTU diesel engines. The reason is because those are more efficient, capable and reliable than black smoke spewing Soviet engines. This is why Chinese aircraft carriers Lioaning and Shangdong emit less black smoke and are more reliable than the Russian equivalent Admiral Kuznetsov. I don’t think I need to tell you how China bullies and threatens neighboring countries (as well as their own citizens) using its military to achieve their strategic or geopolitical or whatever goals.

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[German engine technology found in Chinese warships — report | News | DW | 06.11.2021](https://www.dw.com/en/german-engine-technology-found-in-chinese-warships-report/a-59740301)

[EU news: Fury as Germany funds China military with warship engines | World | News | Express.co.uk](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1518183/eu-news-germany-china-warships-navy-engines-mtu-man)

Yes, there are talks about reducing Chinese reliance on minerals bluh bluh bluh but I believe at this point it is too late. Because sourcing it from multiple difference sources costs more money for the non-Chinese parties and China because they already have cheap minerals and have “improved” their vehicles due to the aforementioned German help can flood or influence the world market with their indiginous electric vehicles due to subsidies, economies of scales, etc, etc.

I believe this whole battery electric vehicle industry push, initially started by the EU as a way to cover up their car industry’s embarrassment and pride, in the end only benefitted evil jingoistic, genocidal parties with evil world plans that will have huge leverage against us and should be reconsidered. PHEV probably is the best compromise (it uses traditional means as well as batteries although not as intense, so you can spread it around) and for heavy duty application, some kind of fuel cells (methane hydride research all over the world’s oceans).

All old Germany gotta do is admit Toyota, Honda and Ford was right and that their pride and professorial engineering team may had too many cooks and had spoiled the broth. How difficult is it for the Germans to admit their mistake? All they did is make a bigger trouble for the free world just like with Russia….



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6 thoughts on “How much influence have politics, specifically of the EU/German big autos played in the Battery Electric Vehicle industry? Was there a “conspiracy”? Did it really achieve something positive and meaningful?

  1. It’s a lot more complicated.

    PHEV is a ploy to keep ICE profits for car makers and fossil fuel interests. Consider how many industries die with full BEV adoption.

    https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/PHEV-FS-EN-sept2020-0.pdf

    Toyota turned anti EV as did Honda, Ford and GM a bit also. You ignored Tesla. Check the timeline for Tesla and CCS, it’s part of the EV expense/incompatibility saga. Unfortunately finding the facts is hard.

  2. I 100% agree with your take, but you are not going to get any responses or constructive discussions here. You should repost it in r/cars.

    If it was really about the environment, they need to be following Toyota’s plan (ICE -> HV & PHEV -> BEV -> hydrogen), but Germans are skipping HV because they can’t compete against Toyota’s HV technology.

  3. Positive? If anything they achieved only negatives – hampering the adoption of cleaner/more efficient cars (and EVs) at every opportunity.

    German politics was always heavily auto influenced. It’s not a coincidence that Merkel was called the ‘Autokanzlerin’ (‘car chancellor’ ). Whatever the car companies wanted she pushed at EU-level (stopping better emission standards and any push towards EVs).

    Dieselgate could not have happened (and reparations could not have delayed this much) without the staunch backing of Merkel and Altmaier (the EU representative of the conservatives).

    As for the companies themselves: Note that Mercedes held a large amount of Tesla shares and sold them way before Tesla became a thing (at today’s prices they missed out on roughly 90bn dollars worth). Porsche has repeatedly publicized the position that there is zero demand for EVs …and they did this as late as 2019. VW had no activities beyond compliance cars (eGolf) until Diess took over. Similarly for BMW.

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