Is it just me or is EV FUD intensifying lately?

Is it just me or is EV FUD intensifying lately?

https://reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/x7io3o/is_it_just_me_or_is_ev_fud_intensifying_lately/
MCReader69
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Is it just me or is EV FUD intensifying lately?



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36 thoughts on “Is it just me or is EV FUD intensifying lately?

  1. Considering more people in the US work in the solar industry than the coal industry, I don’t know what’s with the romaticism and political grandstanding with coal miners.

    Wyoming produces [40% of the US’ coal.](https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=69&t=2) – a little under [5000 people work in coal mining in Wyoming.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/215788/coal-mining-employment-in-wyoming-by-mine-type/)

    “Clean energy” jobs tend to pay more, and have more people employed at them.

  2. The California EV mandate being signed into law is big and has implications for a lot of the United States.

    Because it’s California, and because it’s something climate change-related, and because it’s about “muh freedoms”, talking about it gets lots of clicks and engagement. So anything that anyone of remote importance says about EVs will get an article as a result.

  3. The last one is badly worded.

    Its not that there isnt enough lithium gloablly for EVs, its that there isnt enough mining capacity right now to extract enough lithium for current EV adoption targets.

  4. FUD isn’t always unfounded. There are downsides to EV’s, and attention is the best way to improve them. EV’s are becoming a really big deal, it’s not surprising people are talking about them.

  5. The petroleum supply chain represents trillions in capital investments including wells, rigs, pipelines, tanker trucks, rail, barge, tankers, refineries, gas stations, vehicle manufacturers, parts suppliers, etc.

    [Oil and gas production is 9.7% of GDP](https://www.naturalgasintel.com/natural-gas-oil-found-to-support-sizeable-chunk-of-u-s-gdp-including-pennsylvania/) in the US and [transportation accounts for 7.7 percent of GDP.](https://data.bts.gov/stories/s/Transportation-Economic-Trends-Contribution-of-Tra/pgc3-e7j9/) Much of that spending and associated jobs will be reduced or transitioned significantly in the coming years which will displace millions of workers. Consumers who are reluctant to transition will see higher and more volatile fuel prices. The high fuel prices will encourage some laggards and embitter others.

    The oil industry has a huge incentive to spread disinformation, lots of individuals whose economic prosperity is directly tied to the industry and others who have been brainwashed into thinking that V8s are part of their heritage are eager to spread anti-ev news online.

  6. The Lithium mining is legit. We need seawater extraction breakthroughs to get busy pulling Li out of the oceans if we’re going to have any chance of catching up to demand.

    But the overall question, yeah, you’re going to keep hearing EV FUD while the gas companies are getting their future dismantled. They’re gonna lash out to slow down adoption as long as they can. Every day they keep us on oil is worth billions to them, so even a small delay is financially great for them.

    We’ll hit the real tipping point when battery production gets high enough to feed all of the new EV carmakers. Right now Korea has some promising tech that’s maturing in seawater extraction.

    Personally, I think data centers and other waste heat generating industries should pair up with desalination and Li extraction by using evaporation fields for thermals. Pipe hot fluid from coolant loops to warm the evap ponds and speed up the process.

  7. The two articles about the CA power grid are legitimate concerns about overburdening the grid during a heatwave especially when it’s being used most heavily in the afternoons (higher temps, more power draw from ACs).

    I’ve also read that the grid will do just fine, but any failure, no matter the severity, is likely to result in finger pointing.

  8. Have you seen r/cars ?

    Any time there is a post explaining that someone switched from EV back to ICE it is the top post of the day. It’s hardly a discussion of cars anymore, it got too big, like most of the larger subreddits.

  9. Its a perfect storm of shittiness:

    * People hate change. I see it similar to how Americans hate health insurance companies, but viciously cling to our broken moronic system. Its the same with EVs for some. They hate high gas prices, but they cling to them for the sake of familiarity.
    * Fossil Fuel groups are undoubtedly upping their propaganda. They need to keep those sweet sweet profits rolling in.
    * Some people associate EVs with “liberals”. And therefore anything EV is “bad”. Anti-EV shit drives clicks. Clicks mean $$$$$.

  10. Hmmmm it’s almost as if the multi-billion dollar oil, automotive and energy industry’s are being threatened by the emergency of an alternative to the norm that could undermine the stronghold they have on the fundamentals of the industry as a whole. Maybe there is some sort of a smear campaign being run by the multi-national conglomerates to discredit and deter EVs, solar and green energy efforts…hmmmmm

  11. I think we’re seeing an intensification of anti-EV rhetoric being pushed by oil industry businesses starting to understand their financial futures may be at risk. For example, those plants building gas engines and their thousands of custom parts, or those auto service dealerships relying on regular expensive service visits that EVs don’t need. We’re a country that auto mobilization modernized, and many of those associated businesses depend on their continued needs. Up until now, it was easy to dismiss the transition as a niche interest, but no more. Last year, I was lucky to see one or two Teslas a day on the freeway and driving around town. This year I’ve stopped counting seeing them every few minutes on the freeway. My housing neighborhood of 120 homes in downtown Sacramento now has at least 15 Tesla owners, with Hyundai Ioniq 5s, Ford Mach Es, Chevy Bolts, Nissan Leafs now joining the mix

    As it becomes clear that EVs are indeed the future, I think we’ll see an acceleration of the move to EVs. However fast that proceeds will depend on some entrepreneurial thinking in the auto industry to actually start mass producing affordable EVs. The Chevy Bolts are currently the most interesting in this segment, but still a bit expensive for most folks. Tesla kickstarted this interest around 2012 with the Model S, and really got into gear in 2017 with the release of the Model 3 at half its price. But, that only opened the door for upper middle class folks to begin testing the EV waters. When $20k EVs start becoming more common I think the die will be cast. Hand in glove with this effort will be the need for well distributed and maintained EV charging stations that are as easy to use as Tesla’s Supercharger network. That will take time, but the gas station on every corner network we now have wasn’t built overnight.

  12. Just remember: the true major EV players don’t pay a dime to most of these “news” companies, while legacy auto has quite the history of spending millions to advertise with them. The only legacy auto brands I have any respect for are Kia/Hyundai and maybe dodge

  13. Nobody else seems to have mentioned it: but EV FUD has always been around. There’s a good chance you’re just encouraging the algorithm to show it to you by engaging with those articles.

  14. There is plenty of FUD, and plenty of real concern around charging infrastructure and longevity of batteries. It doesn’t matter; manufacturers sell every EV they make immediately, they’re pre-ordered months in advance. The same is true of every battery component, and every scrap of lithium and nickel that comes from a mine. The California EV mandate accelerated the FUD, but the entire supply chain was all in on manufacturing EVs before the mandate. The EU has a similar mandate, and greater political unity behind it.

    There is some FUD around Tesla, but Tesla is a volatile company with a very volatile leader. There is real reason for optimism around Tesla, but also plenty of reason for skepticism. Tesla was so successful that they’re strongly associated with EVs in many people’s minds, but legacy automakers are fully invested in EVs now, in an effort to catch Tesla.

  15. Both pro and anti EV propaganda has been running wild lately.

    Frankly so has propaganda about everything else.

    It’s like all the honest, reasonable opinions get buried. Anger sells, I guess.

  16. It’s like people don’t know lobbying firms pay for articles that swing people a certain way. 🙄 Oil, coal and natural gas firms want the administration that they own in power.

  17. As an EV owner, EV are not a planet saver but an attack on the middle class and another way for the wEF to control the populations mobility.
    You can’t just charge an EV you need to subscribe to a network and the payment is made electronic.
    A gas station you walk up to it and pay and go and end of story.
    Also banning petroleum cars and making EV unaffordable to most will increase subscription mobility and reduce peoples freedom of movement.

  18. I’ve also been seeing numerous posts and pics criticizing the environmental impact of lithium mining, and disposal. I counter with pictures of tar sands open pit mining and oil spills.

  19. Yes. The world runs on petroleum. This is a massively capital intensive activity so only a relative handful of corporations make the vast majority of profits. They own us. They collectively run the entire world.

    And they have a vested interest in keeping the status quo. If (when, let’s be real) the world switches to BEVs, and just a portion of households become independent of the grids, petroleum will lose more than 30% market share and become nonviable as a fuel.

    At this point, literally trillions of dollars of investments become stranded assets. Debts get restructured. Banks lose big. Investors lose bigger. All over the world wells are abandoned, deep sea equipment is cemented and abandoned. Metric tonnes of equipment falls into disrepair and the industry will never recover.

    This current FUD push is a death throw of the petroleum economy. It will intensify until the last breath of life of the FF industry. The war is on and the petroleum side is feeling it’s own inevitable collapse. There will be more blood.

    Honestly, I worry about some BEV industry heads. Especially those of South African heritage. Not like their death will stop the inevitable switch at this point, but they will try everything to slow it because it’s their entire financial futures at stake.

  20. Big oil is against EVs and big oil primarily pays off Republicans. As a result, anti-EV is part of the Republican agenda.

    Also, generally speaking, if one side is for something, by default, the other side has to be against it.

    So now you get this insanity.

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