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https://reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/mpbsnz/once_green_plugin_hybrid_cars_suddenly_look_like/
techgeek72
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-europe-regulations-insight-idUKKBN2BZ0C2


Once ‘green’ plug-in hybrid cars suddenly look like dinosaurs in Europe



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11 thoughts on “Once ‘green’ plug-in hybrid cars suddenly look like dinosaurs in Europe”
  1. I disagree with the popular sentiment on here that PHEVs are the worst of both worlds. My Volt has been very reliable and low maintenance, and I consistently get 70% of the mileage on electric.

    For as long as it’s legal to sell pure ICE SUVs that get 18mpg, complaining about PHEVs that are 70% electric and the remaining 30% of the time get 35-40 mpg is ridiculous.

    That being said, I do think the incentives should be based on EV range rather than battery capacity. There does seem to be an alarming trend of big luxury SUVs putting in 100 hp electric motors and an 8 kWh battery that gives them a 30km range, but run the ICE for accelerations and climate control. They’re clearly just a mild hybrid that is bumping up the battery capacity to qualify for tax rebates and incentives, and they still get pretty terrible fuel efficiency.

    It’s my understanding that these phoney PHEVs are pretty prevalent in Europe, and then rarely get plugged in (because if they don’t have a pure EV mode and only have a few dozen kilometers of range, why bother?) and people get jacked up about it.

    In the US it’s a different story, with a lot of PHEV owners who are religious about charging and who try to minimize fuel consumption. And cars like the Volt and Clarity and i3 that have usable EV range and are pretty efficient in gas mode.

  2. Education is the key.

    Just got over 6k miles on my last tank (7 gal) in my supposed climate warming Honda Clarity PHEV.

    EV for commuting
    Hybrid if you need it for longer drives.

  3. If the problem is people taking advantage of the credits and are not charging them, just get rid of the credits. That way, people who pay the premium over the ICE versions have an incentive to charge them to recoup the extra cost.

  4. I don’t see any perspective PHEV except honda right now, but Honda Clarity not sold in EU and Honda PHEV CR-V not yet on sale

    ps: yeah I know about Volvo XC lineup (46 km electric range)

  5. I think PHEVs definitely have a limited life expectancy in the market since they are very much a stepping stone.

    I know they don’t have a great reputation here, but I’m very thankful for my Prius Prime. I live in the rural South East US and there’s only about six charging spots (parking spots, not locations) within 50 miles of me. I don’t think a full EV would work for me at this time, no matter much I want one, but having the Prime gives me a nice taste of EV and saves me a nice chunk of change in the meantime. If I can stretch a 10 gallon tank of gas to 800 or 900 miles, I’m feeling pretty good about it.

    In time, the infrastructure will be there to support EVs, but definitely not right now in my neck of the woods.

  6. Pretty amazing the anti-PHEV propaganda being pushed by almost all MSM sources lately. There’s a lot of potential money in the BEV game, so thinking any of these articles is unbiased would be some serious naivety. Let’s be clear, any issues with PHEVs are a result of **idiotic government policy**.

    In Europe, there are a lot of problems, but the main issue isn’t the PHEVs… at least not most of them. It’s that a lot of people live in dense cities with only parking structures or street parking, and have nowhere to charge overnight. The government’s blanket tax incentives based only on lab tests, with bonuses for corporate purchases, directly incentivize customers and companies to buy PHEVs to save money whether they’re charged or not.

    There’s no regulation on corporate fuel reimbursement, so many corporations only reimburse for petrol/diesel purchases by giving employees gas cards. Even more silly… these companies could install L1/L2 chargers or even just outlets for people to use their travel charger at the work place, and save loads of money on fuel costs. Maybe they’re working on it? If so, the media sure isn’t covering it since most journalists these days are lazy AF.

    Government tax incentives often hijack the free market and pick winners in the least efficient way possible, whether they’re the best solution or not. What our governments should be doing is taxing that which is bad, and letting the free market figure out the best solution…

    Adding pressure leads to people searching for solutions to relieve it. If the pressure is emissions taxes, then people will look for solutions to reduce their emissions and find relief from the taxes. We should be taxing emissions, period. Applying a simple tax to fossil fuel purchases that increases annually should do the trick. To avoid it being regressive for the lowest income earners, the government could issue checks to those people to offset the tax, or lower their effective payroll tax so their paychecks grow.

    ​

    * For those people who absolutely cannot charge, then PHEVs make no sense because unsubsidized, they’re more expensive than fuel efficient ICEs and HEVs… so people will choose those vehicles instead.
    * For those who can charge but don’t want to… they would be paying more for a PHEV, then see lower efficiency for carrying the extra weight and transmission losses, thereby paying more for more fuel and taxes than they otherwise could have.
    * For those who want to charge but don’t have access, they can request/demand that their government, living complex, or workplace offer them charging solutions.

    BEVs aren’t a great solution either. Limited battery production capacity is restricting the number of BEVs we can produce, and BEVs use far more cells than PHEVs and HEVs. Sure, BEVs are often great cars, but the fewer we produce, the more ICEs will be sold. BEVs are also expensive and can front load a large amount of emissions during production… which also should be taxed… The larger the battery, the more emissions, the more tax. Simple.

    As to the money the government pulls in from this tax… they could spend it on rapidly building charging infrastructure, build protected bike lanes (a bike is far better than any car), add more green public transportation and more rapid routes, add more green energy infrastructure, incentivize companies that move to 4 day work weeks, have work from home policies, add chargers to their lots, and add carpooling programs.

  7. Battery has been improving quickly, and charging infrastructures are going more common. I don’t surprise to see that.

    It’s happening in Europe first when they push more BEV incentives and policies.

  8. See I really wanna get a VW Passat GTE next. I’d love a fully electric one but Volkswagen said no to that idea.

    The idea of two “engines” working together though.. seems to me like a whole load of moving parts that could go even more wrong.

    But the price jump to a Ev of similar size etc.. 🤷‍♂️ sad face time.

  9. Ah man, my first thought at the headline was Dino shaped cars, sorely disappointed.

  10. That whole phevs cause more emissions than an equivalent hybrid argument is bs. Quantify that statement with numbers and you’ll find the difference in efficiency from carrying the weight of the battery is marginal. The Ioniq goes from 54mpg in hev to 52 mpg in phev for the extra weight. By that token you might as well consider for most trips in a Tesla the extra battery weight is increasing emissions because you only needed 10kwh instead of 50 to get around. And 40kwh of battery is sure heavier than an ice drivetrain.

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