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https://reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/mm5gf4/we_have_enough_expensive_evswe_need_more/
ArchitSasta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmLDK2fKQRM&t=535s


We have enough expensive EVs….We need more affordable EVs!




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20 thoughts on “We have enough expensive EVs….We need more affordable EVs!”
  1. Battery prices have been dropping faster than EV prices, so there’s potential for price drops. We just need a bit more competition to get there, which is happening as we speak

  2. If we wish to accelerate the process of cost reduction, government subsidies for expensive EVs need to decrease or be removed and the cutoff price set much lower. Then the fleet fuel economy targets need to be toughened.

    Do that and watch manufacturers lower their prices and bring to market more affordable cars. I don’t think that’d result in a sub 10k pound EV with 150 miles of range just yet, but I do think the 15k-25k segment would heat up with more competitive offerings.

  3. Yes, we need sub 20K EVs. No doubt. They’re still 5 years away. One or two may pop up due to incentives and whatnot, but MSRP sub 20K will take a little bit.

  4. Companies are battery restrained, aren’t they? While that lasts, and while companies start leaning into their EV transition, it makes sense for them to prioritize more expensive options that will provide a higher profit margin.

  5. You can buy a *used* EV if you want a very cheap one at this point, especially if you don’t plan to drive any long distances with it. That’s what I did. I spent $10k, and I have been more than happy with it.

  6. While you might want an EV that you can afford, the market as a whole has a huge capacity to absorb every $35k+ EV that the manufacturers can build today. It is those less-affordable EVs that will get supply chains established, battery manufacturing lines established, and EV/EVSE expertise established. [Looking at the Ford Mustang Mach-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGjUQuXozYc), the various manufacturers entering the market now have a lot of work to do on the software onboard the vehicle before their cars are ready for mass production. The money to pay for that software development has to come from Mach-E sales, but once the wrinkles in the charging software, mapping, range prediction, etc are ironed out it will be a lot easier for Ford to produce cheaper EVs.

    Maximum production capacity for EVs across all manufacturers is still single-digit percentages of the world production of ICE vehicles. In the USA the largest segment of the market by volume was pickup trucks, and the Tesla/Rivian/etc electric pickup trucks are yet to hit the market.

    Manufacturers are going to target the high-margin market segments first, so what you’ll see over the next few years is greater EV penetration into pickup trucks, luxury SUV, and luxury sedans. We’ll see the $25k Tesla in about three to five years, with Elon suggesting that Tesla’s mass-market “low price” EV will be unveiled in 2022. I’d expect production to start a year or two after the unveiling.

    Most manufacturers aren’t going to start producing a “cheap” EV until they’ve satisfied most of the demand for the high margin EVs. It’s just what businesses do. It’s not about what *you* need, it’s about what the manufacturer can make the most profit from the fastest. If they could conjure up a $25k EV that was $12k profit, that would be less profitable than the same volume production of a $80k EV worth $20k profit (half the margin, but double the profit per unit sold).

    The good news is that manufacturers in China and Korea are ready to take over the US market with their BEVs. So in about three years time you’ll have all the “cheap” EVs you could possibly want!

  7. No, we do NOT have enough expensive EVs. But yes, we do need more less expensive EVs. I would like to see more federal incentives at all levels, weighted more heavily toward more efficient EVs.

  8. Of course we do, but it’s not like they can work magic. Cheap, long range cars are coming, it’s just a waiting game. But I also think Dacia is quite a bit cheaper, it just has no competition yet. Once it does in a couple of years, we’ll see how low they could go.

  9. I totally agree. I could care less about a 300 mile range. 150 is plenty. Price is more important.

  10. The largest cost is supposedly the batteries though, and they are going down in cost every year per kWh. We might have to wait for SSB to be out for a while before we get cheap long range EVs.

  11. Yes we need cheaper EV’s desperately. Even the fact that used ones can cost more than a new ICE, at least here in Canada, is a testament to just how overpriced they currently are.

  12. At an ideal 100 dollars per kWh of storage at the pack level, a 60kWh battery which I would deem acceptable and yet not ideal (due to current weight and charging rate) for city cars, it still costs manufacturers 6k. You’re not going to find anyone mass producing 10k to 15k with that large of a battery EV any time soon. There have always been small and cheap electric cars made in China but even early adopters avoid them and as the guy says in the video, there are still standards for how (not) shitty such an econobox should be, i.e. not actually a golf cart. It’s not up to manufacturers to focus on making cheap cars if, at this time, they would lose money on them.

    The Dacia Spring will have 30kWh iirc and pretty slow charging. This is not the EV in its price segment that will convince the masses to switch, it will just provide early adopters on a tight budget something to play with in the mean time. Same could be said for the Nissan Leaf which considering the cost of storage back then it was quite cheap but there was no multiple million unit production run. Why? As the early adopters bought theirs demand slowed so they had to improve the range and features, rinse and repeat with each new generation. Now people want both range and short charging time on top of it being even cheaper. I’m sorry but we don’t have a time machine to go to 2040, steal a chemistry formula and travel back to the present and make it happen and neither are aliens dropping from the sky to offer us an ideal battery. It will be a process of economies of scale reducing manufacturing costs and slow improvements for the cells, packs and motors to achieve the goal.

    No matter how much you whine, you’ll still have to wait. In fact, the cars which we should be talking about now and demand more of them to be made are in the 20k to 30k dollars with 60kWh to 80kWh packs and capable of up to 150kW charging which are feasible, especially if built in countries with cheap labor and or cheap energy and high automation.

    Promote cars like this

    https://youtu.be/_Maw3diOlMg

  13. Tbh, so many affordable EVs that are so cheap isn’t available in all countries like the US, Canada or the European countries. Sure, the shipping costs and etc add ups, but doubling the money?? I am an Indian living in Canada and I can’t digest the fact that my home country has way cheaper electric cars than the foreign country I am living in.

    *After watching that full video, you will know what I mean.*

  14. While the average reported new car price as sold has been creeping up into the near $40K range, it does nothing to illustrate that the largest car market is the secondhand sales of used vehicles where the prices are much much cheaper. We desperately need new EVs priced in the $20-25K range BEFORE incentives to move towards widespread adoption.

    However, a lot of communities aren’t ready for a mass exodus of fossil fuels. The power grid here in the US would collapse if everyone switched right now. I’d rather see incentives prioritized towards modernizing infrastructure and doubling down on renewables than putting EVs into communities that can’t support them at scale yet.

  15. This. Every EV coming out has a giant iPad infotainment system and has entry-level autonomous driving features… where’s the barebones skateboard with a steering wheel that the EV world was promising?

  16. EV’s are going to be $20k more +/- vs. ICE equivalent until battery costs come down, a LOT.

    At this stage it doesn’t matter as there are so few EV’s being sold, on the road, that covering the over $50k car market (avg price is $35K, average affordable price is $11k (35% of average after tax median US income of $35k).

    So a huge market in the high end to convert to EV that can be addressed and used to get the volume to produce a good, EV family car for $35k.

  17. I look forward to seeing more affordable EV’s in the future, the price of Dacia Spring is sadly much higher than I thought it would be, but I hope that it will get other brands to make “cheaper” cars

  18. Best of luck with that. Manufacturers will pay a premium for new technology. Due to limited sales ie production constraints, total ev sales tend to be limited. To maximise profit form ev sales, evs are sold with all the “fruit”. A knoa in Australia starts under $26700. The Kona ev starts over $60,000. The trick is that the fruit included in the Kona ev means the vehicle is more closely attuned to the Kona Elite – starting at $31600. So evs will carry a premium level of gadgets to allow companies to sell them at higher profits. it is not in the interest for manufacturers to sell their Kona ev with basic level of equipment even though this would drop the ev price by about $5000

  19. I just hope by that time we have a working recycling solution for all those battery packs. currently they can be downcycled into battery banks and other uses but eventually they will die. We need a closed loop like lead acid. 99% recycled or its going to be a toxic mess.

    Lithium mining is bad enough as it is. No need to mine more if we don’t need to.

    Honestly while lithium tech is close, I don’t think its current form is up to the challenge of mass adoption. Solid state maybe.

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